What is your opinion on it? Intelligent discussion please...
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What is your opinion on it? Intelligent discussion please...
I think suicide is unacceptable. At all costs. No matter what happens. You husband/wife dies, you dont have to kill yourself to see her again, beside suicidal is against the law, and the Ten Commanments. It also makes your family extremely sad, why would you want to hurt others and yourself, just because of self-pity? People who commit suicide were already dead in the inside...
Technically, who cares if its against the law? If the person is considering suicide obviously they wouldn't care if it's against the law, what is the government going to do...arrest his dead body? As for the Ten Commandments no where therein does it say anything about suicide, you are mistaken. Anyways, I was looking for a more philosophical outlook...a lot of people are not even Christian.Quote:
Originally Posted by psp-heaven
Exactly, so in their mind it is easier for them to end it.Quote:
Originally Posted by psp-heaven
Trigun quote "I very much disagree with suicide."
Suicide is stupid people. It doesn't matter how hard your life is. If every hero from every story decided that things just are to hard and the girl isn't worth saving then where would we be? Lets just take into mind that we all live in that world that the hero was trying to save, ok? Now look at things, evil rules the world and all humans are either dead or slaves.
You have to be very weak minded to comit suicide. Press on my friends when things are tough, push through the dark into the light for tomorrow, is another day.
it's never acceptable at all
It's never acceptable. Never. Never.
I don't feel there would be someone who would advocate suicide.
We can discuss the kind of scenarios that compell a person to take a decision as killing as killing himself/herself - suicide.
- Neeraj
I suffer badly from depression and I know when I am not in a right state of mind that the world seems to just go down and down, yes I've tried it, but not harmed myself in any way other than having my stomach pumped - a reason enough not to ever do that again......but i think that if you are in that headspace you are not being selfish as your world seems utterly horrible you can not see any light that will get you out of it.
When people commit suicide I hear comments like, they were selfish, things couldn't have been that bad - look what they had, how could they do that to their loved ones, don't they realise everybody has problems.... I think to myself - what must have they been going through their minds, what deamons were running around in their heads to make this their only option..... It's sad, but some people can not get out of this headspace, I was just very lucky I have a supporting family, now I have people that i have to tell even if I am just the littlest bit down and then I can manage my depression.
I don't know if my comments help or hinder anyone, but it's my view....
Hi lofidelity,
Thanks for sharing your views with fellow bizhat-ians. You are at a very right place where we all are there to support each other and learn from others experience.
I am sure people reading your experience here would take away something positive. When you say -
That's the key to winning this battle that depression brings with it. I have seen people suferring from "depression" and I know that how innocent they were. It's the family and friends that can help them to come back to normal life. Hope others would also get lucky like you and they get the love and lots of love so that they may not feel lonely and comit suicide.Quote:
Originally Posted by lofidelity
Just for the information, I'd like to tell that depression is a state of mind in which a person often think of suicide. Please help anyone if you find that they are suffering from this desease. Love is the only cure.
Thanks once again lofidelity for adding some live to this thread. Keep sharing and encouraging others. If we can save a single life, it is worth-living.
Most of suicides are simply useful.
But, rarely there is a procreative suicide.
One of those was Herkule's, for exsample. Or Leonida's.
Do you know any recent event of creative suicide?
Recently, "Discovery" chanel shows the movie about The Termopilas, Leonidas and Xerx as very personal story.
I was taken a back by that's shalow aproach.
For example, author insists that strength of Spartan's discipline was in homosexual bounds between the Lacedemonian wariors.
Similarly, the "Alexander" movie wriglle the same thesis.
What's your opinion about that?
Being from Greece myself I must say that in our ancient times homosexuality existed and was not considered abnormal. In fact, it was quite common. I don't know whether Alexander the Great himself was homosexual or whether Leonidas and his 300 Spartans were or whatever...
I just know that the ancient greek people felt good about their sexuality, no matter what it was.
That's my input on the matter.
Readers who are new and don't know about the context being discussed here. Here is some interesting reading material for them.
Let me introduce a Hero called King Leonidas and his 300 Spartans here. I have read a bit of history about them and they were true brave soldiers who sacrificed their life for their motherland.
Legendary in the annals of history are the Spartan Warriors of Ancient Greece. Fearless defenders of liberty, they followed a strict military way of life. In 400 B.C. three hundred Spartans under King Leonidas stood alone at the end against the enormous Persian army under the tyrannical King Xerxes who was sweeping southward into Greece. The 300 Spartans fought to the death against these impossible odds in the narrow mountain pass at Thermopylae (Gates of Fire). The Persians took shocking casualities . Their narrow lines of wicker shields and short javelins were no match for the highly disciplined Spartan lines with their large bronze shields and long spears who slaughtered the Sea of Persians wave after wave.
It was only after a betrayal of a secret path and the 700 Greek allies were ordered home to warn Greece that the 300 Spartans were finally overcome. ALthough the Spartans contributed little to the artistic and intellectual development of Greece, ironically, without them Democracy and Freedom would have been wiped out in their infancy.
http://static.flickr.com/13/88934552_c2c6cf859d.jpg
I have seen the movie called The 300 Spartans that is based on The Battle of Thermopylae.
The Battle of Thermopylae took place during the Greece-Persia war in roughly the 5th century BC. Some 30 city-states of central and southern Greece met in Corinth to devise a common defense (others, including the oracle at Delphi, sided with the Persians). They agreed on a combined army and navy under Spartan command, with the Athenian leader Themistokles providing the strategy. The Spartan king Leonidas led the army to the pass at Thermopylae, near present-day Lamia, the main passage from northern into central Greece..........................................
.......................The Greeks were actually heartened by the example of Leonidas and the 300 Spartans plus allies who fought at Thermopylae. The battle served as an example to officers and soldiers alike of what courage and self-sacrifice could achieve. It is still remembered today as such an example.
The Battle of Thermopylae
[Herodotus, The History of Herodotus, George Rawlinson, tr. vol. 4 (New York: D. Appleman and Company, 1885), bk. 7]
Thus nobly did the whole body of Lacedaemonians and Thespians behave; but nevertheless one man is said to have distinguished himself above all the rest, to wit, Dieneces the Spartan. A speech which he made before the Greeks engaged the Medes, remains on record. One of the Trachinians told him, "Such was the number of the barbarians, that when they shot forth their arrows the sun would be darkened by their multitude." Dieneces, not at all frightened at these words, but making light of the Median numbers, answered, "Our Trachinian friend brings us excellent tidings. If the Medes darken the sun, we shall have our fight in the shade." Other sayings too of a like nature are reported to have been left on record by this same person.
Courtesy:Quote:
I am a bit confused that - should this kind of act be considered as procreative suicide or a great sacrifice of their life for their motherland. Or both are one and the same.
1) http://www.howarddavidjohnson.com/spartans.htm
2) http://www.shsu.edu/~his_ncp/Herother.html
3) http://www.geocities.com/the_temple_...0spartans.html
4) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055719/
Neeraj/ Ebisu- san , I am surprised that you know so much about ancient Greek history. Indeed, their battle was brave and if it wasn't for Efialtis ( translated as Nightmare) who betrayed them, they might as well have won.
I believe that this course of action is not a suicide anymore, but a self-sacrifice. In that case, the act is not only not condemned but praised.
I do agree with you Kakashi-san. This is an act of self-sacrifice for one's motherland and it sets an example for others to follow. I believe once we have some target in our life, we can achieve anything and fight against any adversary circumstances.
Let us be brave. Let us have a reason to be or to achieve something in life. Let us NEVER act like a coward by comitting suicide.
the life saver
With depression and suicides among students on the rise, life skill education is the need of the hour.
By Urmi Gagrhyry
THE STORY of an MBA student killing his lady love shocked India. Both the victim and the accused were under huge pressure. Stress, coping mechanisms, depression are terminologies that are getting more and more attention.What can be done to ensure our students' mental wellbeing?
Well, experts say, much can be done to combat stress, starting with lessons on life skill education (LSE) in our colleges / universities.
Life skills defined in a general way would mean the ability to build sound relationships with self, others and environment. It is also the ability to act responsibly and survive under a variety of conditions. It includes factors such as communications skills, emotion management, creative thinking, self awareness empathy, decision making.
We tend to be performance oriented. Few colleges in India give weightage to extra-curricular activities during admissions.A Head Counsellor, Praveen Shaiek, says, "Development can be grouped into three categories. First, is academic development then career and then life skill development. These are interwoven.Academic development alone is not enough.Life skill education has to move on in parallel with regular academics".
Keeping this in view, shouldn't life skills be an integral part of Indian education system? Manju Nechani, Principal KC College says, "LSE is very important. We have forgotten all about life skills as a result of which we see more and more students unable to cope. Not only should we research on IQ and EQ but also, efforts must be oriented towards enhancing SQ (spiritual quotient)".
Many edutainment companies have felt the need of training students on soft skills and are therefore rendering services to various schools and colleges across the country. Syed Sultan Ahmed, managing director of one such organisation says, "Planting a sapling and providing it with water alone is not enough. It also needs sunlight and good soil. Similarly, success does not predominantly depend upon study skills alone. It also is based on our life skill curriculum." Syed further added that it is very critical to expose parents and teachers to life skill education also.Mintoo Sinha,Principal, Bombay Teachers Training College, is of the opinion that such training should have follow-up session because life skills cannot be learnt by attending a few days workshops but is an ongoing process.
Why don't schools and colleges give LSE the status that it deserves? Manju Nechani opines that it is only a matter of time...The effects of life skill education is not immediate and cannot be quantitatively measured. Results can be seen only over a period of time, which is why it tends to take a back seat in this era of instant result seekers."
According to Praveen Shaiek, "Introducing professional workshops need outsourcing, which makes the matter expensive.
LSE awareness is fast growing. Snehal Sonsale, mother of two teenage children when asked whether a new programme would be welcome by our overburdened students, said, "Let us not underestimate our kids. Today's kids are ambitious and are ready to learn more and more."
However, Jeanine Chatterjee, student of Navy Children School, pretty much summed up students thoughts on LSE. She said, "We are fine with new programmes...but we want it to be done through fun and games.We don't want big home assignments from our LSE instructors!"
(The author is a practicing school psychologist )
Source: Times Of India Newspaper, Bangalore - India Edition
Date: Jan 23, 2006
Link : http://epaperdaily.timesofindia.com
I can not agree with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by http://neerajsingh.bizhat
Sacrifising for their own motherland/fatherland (depends of cultural aproach) wasn't objective Spartans try to achive.
No. They fought not for the others but for themself, for the glory, for the place in the sky just beside the ancestry. And they do that in Spartanian way, which alluded no retreat. Simply as that.
They were aware stalemate position of their own. Xerx, the Persian King, sent them a message to surrender: "I don't want your lives, I just want your weapon."
Leonidas responded: "Come and get it."
:? I believe Dr. Kevorkian is onto something. I think he’s great. Because suicide is our way of saying to God, "You can’t fire me. I quit." (Bill Maher) :?
Dear Slawen.
You are free to have your own beliefs. I can't argue over that. It seems you are in the grip of prejudice. I would ask you to go and refer the history and clear your concepts. I fear someday you would come and say that soldiers who die fighting for their country are comiting suicide :idea:
Oh, no, it isn't a matter of history, not in essantial meaning. This is a question of influence of mythic to forming the cultural foundation of collective awarenes.Quote:
Originally Posted by http://neerajsingh.bizhat
I'm Serb.
Almost every Europian nation, so the Serbs, have their own version of Thermopilas.
Our is Kosovo.
In the year 1389, Serbs fough against the Turk's invasion. Kosovo, the genuine Serb's land, was ordered for battlefield. But, unlike Spartans, Serbs haven't even try to circumvent hundred time numbered Turks. There wasn't any ilusion in Serbs victory. Serbs knew they all will be killed and their efforts are purposeless. And things went that way.
However, five centuries after battle which bring slavery to Serbs, the myth of Kosovo was living in the Serb nation and helped Serbs to rise against Turks.
That was the power of victory Serbs obtain despite Turks military success.
Do you think they haven't knew story about Spartans and Thermopilas?
Dear Slawen,Quote:
Originally Posted by Slawen
If given a chance, I would prefer to go with this "Kosovo version". This article gives us some information about the famous battle of Kosovo in 1389 under the title KOSOVO AND METOHIA IN THE SERBIAN HISTORY.
Here is some relevant excerpts from the above article.
As known from history, the advance of the Turks towards Europe was a rather slow process. Prince Lazar Hrebeljanovic and Serbian nobility in the famous battle of Kosovo in 1389 did everything humanly possible to stop the Turkish invasion toward south eastern Europe. It was not only a clash of two armies led by their rulers Serbian prince Lazar and Turkish sultan Murat (who both perished in the battle of Kosovo), but also a clash of two civilizations, one Christian and European and other Islamic and Asiatic. Read More.....
Source: Slavenko TERZIC, Ph.D.
Historical institute of the Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts
Friend Slawen, I can see that they didn't simply give up. They fought like any other true warrior and in the end Prince sacrificed his life for his country. Anyway, we are free to chose our own version of history and there is no one there to stop us. I would rather prefer to be positive and fight and lay down our life for the betterment of my country over giving up in the beginning itself.
I am from India and we can count so many instances where we fought and just fought for our freedom without giving it a second thought. On many occasions, you would be calling it a suicide but IT WAS NOT. We call it self sacrifice for something good. Let me give you three exapmles from Indian history to bring home my point of view.
Mahatma Gandhi - Father of the nation who gave us (India) freedom from the British rule. Even mighty British couldn't imagine that one single person can do any harm to them and that also when Mahatma teaches non-violence. You would be surprised to know that he won freedom for us without a single bullet.
By means of nonviolent civil disobedience, Gandhi helped bring about India's independence from British rule, inspiring other colonial peoples to work for their own independence and ultimately dismantling the British Empire. Gandhi's principle of satyagraha (from Sanskrit; satya for truth and agraha for endeavour), often translated as "way of truth" or "pursuit of truth", has inspired other freedom activists such as Martin Luther King, Jr., the Dalai Lama, Lech Wałęsa, Stephen Biko, Aung San Suu Kyi, and Nelson Mandela. However, not all these leaders kept to Gandhi's strict principle of nonviolence and nonresistance. Read More...
Maha Rana Pratap - a great warrior - He died fighting for his nation, for his people, and most importantly for his honor. In 1576, the famous battle of Haldighati was fought with 20,000 Rajputs against a Mughal army of 80,000 men commanded by Raja Man Singh. The battle was fierce though indecisive, to the Mughal army's astonishment. Read More.....
1971 India-Pakistan War: Battle of Longewal - The Battle of Longewal, fought in the deserts of the Indian state of Rajasthan, merits inclusion in any account of the 1971 India-Pakistan war because of the sheer audacity of the Pakistani generals who had planned it. Had it succeeded, India would have lost thousands of kilometres of a vast expanse of desert. But there is a fine line between the daring and the foolhardy. Did Pakistani generals cross that dividing line?
The Pakistani plan was no less ambitious and a surprise attack was launched along the Gabbar-Longewal axis. The main axis lay to the north, connecting the Indian town of Jaisalmir with the Pakistani town of Islamgarh and Rahimiyar Khan beyond it. The intruding Pakistani armoured column and accompanying towed artillery was spotted by an Indian patrol on 4th December after it had come 16 km into Indian territory. The first reports were dismissed, until the enemy took up position just 300 metres away from the isolated Indian Army company located at Longewal. The unit had no anti-tank weapons or mines. The Pakistanis could have overrun the post within hours. But the Indian company commander, Major Kuldip Singh Chandpuri, showed presence of mind by bringing in the company's recoilless guns and heavy machine guns and directing concentrated and sustained fire at the enemy positions. The Pakistanis were taken aback by the extent of the fire and felt that the Indians must have a much larger force at Longewal than reported by their Intelligence. Instead of storming the post and carrying on to Jaisalmir as was the plan, the Pakistanis encircled the post and decided to set up their artillery to soften it up before attacking. Read More....
Similarly, not only I anyone can quote so many instances from their history, culture, religion that would support one point of view wherein we can distinguish between a suicide and self-sacrifice for some good reasons and NOT for personal gains.
An interesting suicide story.. read at the following location in this forum.
http://forums.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?t=19622
Here is the gist.
If God wanted us to take our own life, he would have provided a poweroff button. He didn't, so have faith and let his plan for you unfold. Because no matter how tough life gets and how much it hurts, if street dogs don't give up, there is no reason why we, the smart species, should. Makes sense right?
As I jumped off the building's 11th floor...........
10th floor
http://static.flickr.com/32/97812117_2cc44b5946.jpg
9th floor
http://static.flickr.com/29/97813364_2cde19a1e1.jpg
7th floor
http://static.flickr.com/40/97813365_79319f951a.jpg
6th floor
http://static.flickr.com/19/97813366_8494374191.jpg
4th floor
http://static.flickr.com/26/97813367_cef0cc7f6b.jpg
3rd floor
http://static.flickr.com/34/97814307_a7a10d4d52.jpg
2nd floor
http://static.flickr.com/37/97814308_2307973834.jpg
Now the ground zero
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http://static.flickr.com/26/97814310_06827ec529.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/39/97815531_fdb8ff0938.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/38/97815532_e85f0eee7f.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/29/97815533_99ebaa2246.jpg
Ya. Life in all its sorrows and happiness, is still beautiful and precious.... do make the best of it..........Only Cheers....n....smiles are counted. So u better be prepared to smile at whoever u come across!.
I think anyone who commits suicide for the purpose of re-joining someone in heaven is just throwing away their life for no reason, because of course there is no such thing as heaven.
I think suicide is perfectly acceptable to relieve pain, escape severe depression, or simply for entertainment. It's their life, let them do with it what they want.
Dear dontfeedthedragon,Quote:
Originally Posted by dontfeedthedragon
I have not come across any case wherein a person comits suicide for fun. It's very very difficult to take this dicision. Extreme pain, severe depression are some of the probable causes as mentioned by you. But, you would always find someone who are in more pain than us, so it's un-acceptable there too.
In my country, comiting suicide is a crime. So, even the law doesn't permit us.
Now you can say, who bothered about law, after one had died.
So the discussion goes on...
i think suicide is a quick way out. i have tired it two times and failed both times...but i do think it is a good way to die for me.
Is there any taker of his thought? Hopelesssssssssss
Thank's for impresive lesson in India's history, especialy in Sanskrit (one of ours academician claims that our own language was evolved from Sanskrit).Quote:
Originally Posted by http://neerajsingh.bizhat
I'm also very glad to see that you was courteous to find some facts about our (Serb's) history. In the same time, I must say that Slavenko Terzic is very competent authority, but also a little bit one-sided. He was a expert witness in the Slobodan Milosevic's trial, proffer by the defender, for the exapmle.
I agree that is always a good mutual reason for self-sacrifising. It comes in selfdestruction, but also in destruction of as many enemies as possible. There is an heroe's conscience of impossibility to win the victory, but the belief in benefit (for the others, for the fatherland...) of the battle is not necessary the element of their thoughts; on the contrary, they would self-sacrifised themselves in the absence of any positive effect of theirs deeds (deads) or despite that.
I'm wondering the personal reasons which propel that men to do what they were did, because I beleve that every man have his own intimate background.
That's my point.
Please, don't understand my posts as attempt to negate your's state.
I just want to talk with some inteligent and responsive about things we need no to conciliate.
That is my post, but, for some reason, it is not my name beside.Quote:
Originally Posted by nobody
Dear friend Slawen+ , I am glad to see you back once again in this forum.
Thanks for supporting our view and supplementing it with your ideas.
I'm sorry that I'm too busy to visiting this site more frequently, but I'm doing my best.
See you.
Suicide is unacceptable.
I to get depressed at times. Its up to you to make yourself think different.
If you are uncapable of doing so, I won't feel any sorrow about your death.
If you can pull a knife on a family member, than I will be able to pull a knife on you.
Life isn't so complicated when you threaten me or my family.
Life becomes very small at that point.
I won't care a bit if you die or anyone else. Its not me dead.
Enjoy life while you are alive, make yourself believe things; enjoy yourself.
I couldn't understand the family angle in your post dear Ancient_Coder but it's quite true when you say "Enjoy life while you are alive, make yourself believe things; enjoy yourself."Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancient_Coder
If you permit we can discuss the family part in more detail here. We fellow bizhat-ians might be some help to you. Because you seem to be in a bit tension when you wrote this post - am i right? Just guessing.. Lets talk about it, it would surely help us in releasing tension.
Suicide is uacceptable
Its life
U'll alwez hav to deal wid failure and depressions
But then this life do give u some happy moments
whcih u cannot 4 get in ur life
If u ask me I've been facing failure tooooooo much
for the last 1 and half month since new year
But I know if I get through this period
there will b sweet fruit to all this
Quote:
Life is to face troubles, not to get away 4m them
Well Said Guttu Bhai....
We should have Never Say Die Attitude always.
I always keep saying one thing to my friends, I don't have time in my this short life to think about the problems, tensions, revenge, frustration and any un-necessary things. I would think about all those things in my forthcoming lives :-)
Till then, let me enjoy the beauty of life.. I have no time.. I just want to explore new ways to be happy and bring happiness in others life at the same time.
Yes and thnx 4 appreciating
Its gud way to live ur life
and I live life as it comes
Its very difficult if u plan it and live
and make things happen according to ur plans
and if they fail u get more frustrated
I tried that before
Now I live life as it comes
Like u said no thinkin of problems
Jus face them as they come
Yeah that's true. We need to keep trying different options in our life. Instead of getting frustrated with one thing, we should spend time in trying out other alternatives.
Nice to know that you have changed for betterment.
Good Luck !
Thnx for wishing me
I'm having troubles still
but I'll stick to this attitude as I think
its better than the previous
and after all everything depends on how
ur mind reacts to the situation and ur mind shud feel gud
i could never see the reason to commit suicide there are so many alternatives
damn haha.. yea... well life should be valued. but theres always times when you can take your own life in hopes of saving anothers. that would be what i call honorable suicide. jesus commited suicide to an extent... did he have mary and her bitches flash the guards while he was getting whipped so his homies could rush the distracted guards? na... he WILLINGLY died. christianity plays a large role on our society. i rest my case.
There are many religions, and I'm not on earth to judge other people. I don't know if the Christian Bible makes suicide a sin. The Hebrew Old Testament part of the Chrisitan Bible records that God gave Moses the 10 Commandments. One is "Thou Shalt Not Kill". It is contradictory, because God aided his people in wars. Ignoring that, suicide is 'killing oneself', so for Hebrew/Christian's it is unacceptable.
Think it is the Buddha religion that teaches our souls choose to incarnate on this planet to have a certain life experience. Perhaps the soul choose suicide? Or being of that belief, one never would, because one would be too busy learning the lesson.
What if a person holds no belief in a God/Goddess or Higher power? Then suicide is a way to end their suffering on earth. Happy, cared for people don't commit suicide. An unloved person without a home or anyone to love or be loved by, and unable to ever be able to return to the normal world due to society's way of keeping a person down, might find suicide the only answer.
Then their are the very elderly who will never recover from an illness. Did you ever watch someone die slowly, their body rotting away, while they are alive. The suffering and pain! I think that person has a right to suicide.
Not to offend, but if God were as loving as I've been told, he won't allow humans such suffering, that they'd choose to not want to live.