Why is a Caste System necessary?

[Slawen +]

Why does India continue to use a Caste System?
Well, because it's in Asia.

[glassydreams]

I believe Selfishness is the root cause of Casteism. If someone made a system which makes one bunch superior to the other obviously it is for selfish gains.
Years of high caste dominace has Pushed the low caste people to a pathetic condition. As a result of that low caste people are still in the villages with less privilages .Obviously they'll have an unfair competion in schools colleges and work places having to compete with the highcaste people who have studied in Quality education institutions. I beleve to counter this unfair advantage reservations were formed.
But how can our fellow high case folks tolerate this with their selfish nature in their blood..Hence now they want the reservations taken off...
no matter what u try to justify the existance of caste system...isnt this the ground reality?

what sez niraj?

[http://neerajsingh.bizhat]

Dear glassydreams,

Welcome back once again to this thread and thanks for your comments. Let me try to put my point in a way that may help you to get rid of your paranoid feelings.

I believe Selfishness is the root cause of Casteism. If someone made a system which makes one bunch superior to the other obviously it is for selfish gains.

Caste system has age long history and it gets mention in our religious books, puran and many other places. All this tells that the basic purpose and idea that went behind formulating this concept was NOT bad. It is just that we couldn't keep up pace with the changing time that it got deteriorated to such an extent. I agree that there is no serious effort being taken to overcome this problem BUT totally disagree that Selfishness is the ROOT cause. Please help to uproot this problem. We are not in the age where we should blame others for our own problem.

Years of high caste dominace has Pushed the low caste people to a pathetic condition. As a result of that low caste people are still in the villages with less privilages .Obviously they'll have an unfair competion in schools colleges and work places having to compete with the highcaste people who have studied in Quality education institutions. I beleve to counter this unfair advantage reservations were formed.

This is totally valid point. But let me add one point here that 15% reservations for SC and 7-1/2% reservations for ST exist since 1950. Because they were the worst hit section of our society.

But how can our fellow high case folks tolerate this with their selfish nature in their blood..Hence now they want the reservations taken off...

I feel at this point of time you are talking about the additional 27% reservations for OBC/BC. THis came into existence around 1989-91. Now there is total 50% reservations in all the government jobs. There was some protest from upper caste and that's history now. Who protested by the way -> People who were being deprived of their right to earn a job just on the basis of their caste. There were no seats in school/colleges/government offices left for them after Government imposed this new intelligent rule of 50% reservations in all the sectors.

Reservations are still there. Please make maximum use of it and come neck to neck to so called Selfish people and .... be happy. But this attitude is not going to help friend if you are going to hate those guys like whom you always wanted to be.

no matter what u try to justify the existance of caste system...isnt this the ground reality?

I am not justifying the caste system dear. I was trying to tell the readers that what it is all about. I can not make a difference. But at the same time I also know that to hate others will also not provide any solution.

what sez niraj?

That's all I have to say dear friend glassydreams.

[http://neerajsingh.bizhat]

Where are you dear glassydreams? Waiting for your inputs. Others seems to be not that much interested in our discussion :-)

[http://neerajsingh.bizhat]

ET has opened a debate on "Is Premji right to go against job quotas in Wipro?"

As expected most of the posts agree with him...

There is someone who put his pt in a v diff way.. :))

--------------------------------------------------------

I think we should have job reservations in all the fields. I completely
support the PM and all the politicians for promoting this. Let's start the
reservation with our cricket team. We should have 10 percent reservation
for muslims. 30 percent for OBC, SC/ST like that.

Cricket rules should be modified accordingly. The boundary circle should be reduced for an SC/ST player. The four hit by an OBC player should be considered as a six and a six hit by a OBC player should be counted as 8 runs. An OBC player scoring 60 runs should be declared as a century.

We should influence ICC and make rules so that the pace bowlers like
Shoaib Akhtar should not bowl fast balls to our OBC player. Bowlers should bowl maximum speed of 80 kilometer per hour to an OBC player. Any delivery above this speed should be made illegal.

Also we should have reservation in Olympics. In the 100 meters race, an
OBC player should be given a gold medal if he runs 80 meters.

There can be reservation in Government jobs also. Let's recruit SC/ST
and OBC pilots for aircrafts which are carrying the ministers and politicians (that can really help the country.. )

Ensure that only SC/ST and OBC doctors do the operations for the
ministers and other politicians. (Another way of saving the country..)

Let's be creative and think of ways and means to guide INDIA forward...

Let's show the world that INDIA is a GREAT country. Let's be proud of
being an INDIAN..

May the good breed of politicans like ARJUN SINGH long live...

Disclaimer: This post does not endorse my opinion. The sole purpose of this posting is to share this with all of you. Its intention is not to hurt anyone's feeling

[maimai]

what?

I come frome china!

[http://neerajsingh.bizhat]

Excerpt of the Interview between Karan Thapar and Arjun Singh – Heights of Foolishness in a Democracy

Source: CNN-IBN

Decision on quota is final: Arjun

CNN-IBN
Posted Sunday , May 21, 2006 at 20:58
Updated Monday , May 22, 2006 at 10:52

Karan Thapar: Hello and welcome to the Devil's Advocate. As the debate over the reservations for the OBCs divides the country, we ask - What are the government's real intentions? That is the critical questions that I shall put today in an exclusive interview to the Minister for Human Resource Development Arjun Singh. Most of the people would accept that steps are necessary to help the OBCs gain greater access to higher education. The real question is - Why do you believe that reservations is the best way of doing this?


Arjun Singh: I wouldn't like to say much more on this because these are decisions that are taken not by individuals alone. And in this case, the entire Parliament of this country - almost with rare anonymity - has decided to take this decision.

Karan Thapar: Except that Parliament is not infallible. In the Emergency, when it amended the Constitution, it was clearly wrong, it had to reverse its own amendments. So, the question arises - Why does Parliament believe that the reservation is the right way of helping the OBCs?

Arjun Singh: Nobody is infallible. But Parliament is Supreme and atleast I, as a Member of Parliament, cannot but accept the supremacy of Parliament.

Karan Thapar: No doubt Parliament is supreme, but the constitutional amendment that gives you your authorities actually unenabling amendment, it is not a compulsory requirement. Secondly, the language of the amendment does not talk about reservations, the language talks about any provision by law for advancement of socially and educationally backward classes. So, you could have chosen anything other than reservations, why reservations?

Arjun Singh: Because as I said, that was the 'will and desire of the
Parliament'.

Karan Thapar: Do you personally also, as Minister of Human Resource Development , believe that reservations are the right and proper way to help the OBCs?

Arjun Singh: Certainly, that is one of the most important ways to do it.

Karan Thapar: The right way?

Arjun Singh: Also the right way.

Karan Thapar: In which case, lets ask a few basic questions; we are talking about the reservations for the OBCs in particular. Do you know what percentage of the Indian population is OBC? Mandal puts it at 52 per cent, the National Sample Survey Organization at 32 per cent, the National Family and Health Survey at 29.8 per cent, which is the correct figure?

Arjun Singh: I think that should be decided by people who are more
knowledgeable. But the point is that the OBCs form a fairly sizeable
percentage of our population.

Karan Thapar: No doubt, but the reason why it is important to know 'what percentage' they form is that if you are going to have reservations for them, then you must know what percentage of the population they are, otherwise you don't know whether they are already adequately catered in higher educational institutions or not.

Arjun Singh: That is obvious - they are not.

Karan Thapar: Why is it obvious?

Arjun Singh: Obvious because it is something which we all see.

Karan Thapar: Except for the fact that the NSSO, which is a government appointed body, has actually in its research in 1999 - which is the most latest research shown - that 23.5 per cent of all university seats are already with the OBCs. And that is just 8.5 per cent less than what the
NSSO believes is the OBC share of the population. So, for a difference of 8
per cent, would reservations be the right way of making up the difference?

Arjun Singh: I wouldn't like to go behind all this because, as I said,
Parliament has taken a view and it has taken a decision, I am a servant of
Parliament and I will only implement.

Karan Thapar: Absolutely, Parliament has taken a view, I grant it. But what people question is the simple fact - Is there a need for reservations? If you don't know what percentage of the country is OBC, and if furthermore, the NSSO is correct in pointing out that already 23.5 per cent of the college seats are with the OBC, then you don't have a case in terms of need.

Arjun Singh: College seats, I don't know.

Karan Thapar: According to the NSSO - which is a government appointed body - 23.5 per cent of the college seats are already with the OBCs.

Arjun Singh: What do you mean by college seats?

Karan Thapar: University seats, seats of higher education.

Arjun Singh: Well, I don't know I have not come across that far.

Karan Thapar: So, when critics say to you that you don't have a case for reservation in terms of need, what do you say to them?

Arjun Singh: I have said what I had to say and the point is that that is not an issue for us to now debate.

Karan Thapar: You mean the chapter is now closed?

Arjun Singh: The decision has been taken.

Karan Thapar: Regardless of whether there is a need or not, the decision is taken and it is a closed chapter.

Arjun Singh: So far as I can see, it is a closed chapter and that is why I have to implement what all Parliament has said.

Karan Thapar: Minister, it is not just in terms of 'need' that your critics question the decision to have reservation for OBCs in higher education. More importantly, they question whether reservations themselves are efficacious and can work.

For example, a study done by the IIT's themselves shows that 50 per cent of the IIT seats for the SC's and ST's remain vacant and for the remaining 50 per cent, 25 per cent are the candidates, who even after six years fail to get their degrees. So, clearly, in their case, reservations are not working.

Arjun Singh: I would only say that on this issue, it would not be correct to go by all these figures that have been paraded.

Karan Thapar: You mean the IIT figures themselves could be dubious?

Arjun Singh: Not dubious, but I think that is not the last word.
Karan Thapar: All right, maybe the IIT may not be the last word, let me
then quote to you the report of the Parliamentary Committee on the welfare for the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes - that is a Parliamentary body.

It says that looking at the Delhi University, between 1995 and 2000, just
half the seats for under-graduates at the Scheduled Castes level and just
one-third of the seats for under-graduates at the Scheduled Tribes level
were filled. All the others went empty, unfilled. So, again, even in Delhi
University, reservations are not working.


Arjun Singh: If they are not working, it does not mean that for that reason we don't need them. There must be some other reason why they are not working and that can be certainly probed and examined. But to say that for this reason, 'no reservations need to be done' is not correct.

Karan Thapar: Fifty years after the reservations were made, statistics show, according to The Hindustan Times, that overall in India, only 16 per cent of the places in higher education are occupied by SC’s and ST’s. The quota is 22.5 per cent, which means that only two-thirds of the quota is occupied. One third is going waste, it is being denied to other people.

Arjun Singh: As I said, the kind of figures that have been brought out, in my perception, do not reflect the realities. Realities are something much more and of course, there is an element of prejudice also.

Karan Thapar: But these are figures that come from a Parliamentary Committee. It can't be prejudiced; they are your own colleagues.

Arjun Singh: Parliamentary Committee has given the figures, but as to why this has not happened, that is a different matter.

Karan Thapar: I put it to you that you don't have a case for reservations in terms of need, you don't have a case for reservations in terms of their efficacy, why then, are you insisting on extending them to the OBCs?

Arjun Singh: I don't want to use that word, but I think that your argument is basically fallacious.

Karan Thapar: But it is based on all the facts available in the public
domain.

Arjun Singh: Those are facts that need to be gone into with more care. What lies behind those facts, why this has not happened, that is also a fact.

Karan Thapar: Let’s approach the issue of reservations differently in that case. Reservations mean that a lesser-qualified candidate gets preference over a more qualified candidate, solely because in this case, he or she happens to be an OBC. In other words, the upper castes are being penalized for being upper caste.

Arjun Singh: Nobody is being penalized and that is a factor that we are trying to address. I think that the prime Minister will be talking to all
the political parties and will be putting forward a formula, which will see
that nobody is being penalized.

Karan Thapar: I want very much to talk about that formula, but before we come to talk about how you are going to address concerns, let me point one other corollary - Reservations also gives preference and favor to caste over merit. Is that acceptable in a modern society?

Arjun Singh: I don't think the perceptions of modern society fit India entirely.

Karan Thapar: You mean India is not a modern society and therefore can't claim to be treated as one?

Arjun Singh: It is emerging as a modern society, but the parameters of a modern society do not apply to large sections of the people in this country.

Karan Thapar: Let me quote to you Jawaharlal Nehru, a man whom you personally admire enormously. On the 27th of June 1961 wrote to the Chief Ministers of the day as follows: I dislike any kind of reservations. If we go in for any kind of reservations on communal and caste basis, we will
swamp the bright and able people and remain second rate or third rate. The moment we encourage the second rate, we are lost. And then he adds
pointedly: This way lies not only folly, but also disaster. What do you say
to Jawaharlal Nehru today?

Arjun Singh: Jawaharlal Nehru was a great man in his own right and not only me, but everyone in India accept his view.

Karan Thapar: But you are just about to ignore his advice.

Arjun Singh: No. Are you aware that it was Jawaharlal Nehru who introduced the first amendment regarding OBCs?

Karan Thapar: Yes, and I am talking about Jawaharlal Nehru in 1961, when clearly he had changed his position, he said - I dislike any kind of reservations.

Arjun Singh: I don't think one could take Panditji's position at any point of time and then overlook what he had himself initiated.

Karan Thapar: Am I then to understand that regardless of the case that is made against reservations in terms of need, regardless of the case that has been made against reservations in terms of efficacy, regardless of the case that has been made against reservations in terms of Jawaharlal Nehru, you remain committed to extending reservations to the OBCs.

Arjun Singh: I said because that is the will of Parliament. And I think that common decisions that are taken by Parliament have to be honored.

Karan Thapar: Let me ask you a few basic questions - If reservations are going to happen for the OBCs in higher education, what percentage of reservations are we talking about?

Arjun Singh: No, that I can't say because that has yet to be decided.

Karan Thapar: Could it be less than 27 per cent?

Arjun Singh: I can't say anything on that, I have told you in the very beginning that at this point of time it is not possible for me to.

Karan Thapar: Quite right. If you can't say, then that also means that the figure has not been decided.

Arjun Singh: The figure will be decided, it has not been decided yet.

Karan Thapar: The figure has not been decided. So, therefore the figure could be 27, but it could be less than 27 too?

Arjun Singh: I don't want to speculate on that because as I said, that is decision, which will be taken by Parliament.

Karan Thapar: Whatever the figure, one thing is certain that when the reservations for OBCs happen, the total quantum of reservations will go up in percentage terms. Will you compensate by increasing the total number of seats in colleges, universities, IIT’s and IIM's, so that the other
students don't feel deprived.

Arjun Singh: That is one of the suggestions that has been made and is being seriously considered.

Karan Thapar: Does it find favor with you as a Minister for Human Resource Development?

Arjun Singh: Whatever suggestion comes, we are committed to examine it.

Karan Thapar: You may be committed to examine it, but do you as minister believe that that is the right way forward?

Arjun Singh: That could be one of the ways, but not the only way.

Karan Thapar: What are the other ways?

Arjun Singh: I don't know. That is for the Prime Minister and the other ministers to decide.

Karan Thapar: One way forward would be to increase the total number of seats.

Arjun Singh: Yes, definitely.

Karan Thapar: But the problem is that as the Times of India points out, we are talking of an increase of perhaps as much as 53 per cent. Given the constraints you have in terms of faculty and infrastructure, won't that order of increase dilute the quality of education?

Arjun Singh: I would only make one humble request, don't go by The Times of India and The Hindustan Times about faculty and infrastructure, because they are trying to focus on an argument which they have made.

Karan Thapar: All right, I will not go by The Times of India, let me
instead go by Sukhdev Thorat, the Chairman of the UGC. He points out that today, at higher education levels - that is all universities, IIT’s and
IIM’s - there is already a 1.2 lakh vacancy number. 40 per cent of these
are in teaching staff, which the IIT faculty themselves point out that they
have shortages of up to 30 per cent. Given those two constraint, can you
increase the number of seats?

Arjun Singh: That can be addressed and that shortage can be taken care of.

Karan Thapar: But it can't be taken care of in one swoop, it will take
several years to do it.

Arjun Singh: I don't know whether it can be taken care of straightway or in stages, that is a subject to be decided.

Karan Thapar: Let me ask you bluntly, if you were to agree to compensate for reservations for OBCs by increasing the number of seats, would that increase happen at one go, or would it be staggered over a period of two-three or four year old process.

Arjun Singh: As I told you, it is an issue that I cannot comment upon at this moment because that is under examination.

Karan Thapar: So, it may happen in one go and it may happen in a series of several years.

Arjun Singh: I can't speculate on that because that is not something on which I am free to speak on today.

Karan Thapar: Will the reservation for OBCs, whatever figure your Committee decides on, will it happen in one go, or will it slowly be introduced in stages?

Arjun Singh: That also I cannot say because as I told you, all these issues are under consideration.

Karan Thapar: Which means that everything that is of germane interest to the people concerned is at the moment 'under consideration' and the government is not able to give any satisfaction to the students who are deeply concerned.

Arjun Singh: That is not the point. The government knows what to do and it will do what is needed.

Karan Thapar: But if the government knows what to do, why won't you tell me what the government wants to do?

Arjun Singh: Because unless the decision is taken, I cannot tell you.

Karan Thapar: But you can share with me as the Minister what you are thinking.

Arjun Singh: No.

Karan Thapar: So, in other words, we are maintaining a veil of secrecy and the very people who are concerned...

Arjun Singh: I am not maintaining a veil of secrecy. I am only telling you what propriety allows me to tell you.

Karan Thapar: Propriety does not allow you to share with the people who are protesting on the streets what you are thinking?

Arjun Singh: I don't think that that can happen all the time.

Karan Thapar: But there are people who feel that their lives and their futures are at stake and they are undertaking fasts until death.

Arjun Singh: It is being hyped up, I don't want to go into that.

Karan Thapar: Do you have no sympathy for them?

Arjun Singh: I have every sympathy.

Karan Thapar: But you say it is being hyped up.

Arjun Singh: Yes, it is hyped up.

Karan Thapar: So, then, what sympathy are you showing?

Arjun Singh: I am showing sympathy to them and not to those who are hyping it up.

Karan Thapar: The CPM says that if the reservations for the OBCs are to happen, then what is called the creamy layer should be excluded. How do you react to that?

Arjun Singh: The creamy layer issue has already been taken care of by the Supreme Court.

Karan Thapar: That was vis -a-vis jobs in employment, what about at the university level, should they be excluded there as well because you are suggesting that the answer is yes?

Arjun Singh: That could be possible.

Karan Thapar: It could be possible that the creamy layer is excluded from reservations for OBCs in higher education?

Arjun Singh: It could be, but I don't know whether it would happen
actually.

Karan Thapar: Many people say that if reservations for OBCs in higher education happen, then the children of beneficiaries should not be entitled to claim the same benefit.

Arjun Singh: Why?

Karan Thapar: So that there is always a shrinking base and the rate doesn't proliferate.

Arjun Singh: I don't think that that is a very logical way of looking at it.

Karan Thapar: Is that not acceptable to you?

Arjun Singh: No, it is not the logical way of looking at it.

Karan Thapar: So, with the possible exception of the creamy layer
exclusion, reservation for OBCs in higher education will be almost identical to the existing reservations for SC/ST’s?

Arjun Singh: Except for the percentage.

Karan Thapar: Except for the percentage.

Arjun Singh: Yes.

Karan Thapar: So, in every other way, they will be identical.

Arjun Singh: Yes, in every other way.

Karan Thapar: Mr. Arjun Singh, on the 5th of April when you first indicated that the Government was considering reservation for OBCs in higher education, was the Prime Minister in agreement that this was the right thing to do?

Arjun Singh: I think, there is a very motivated propaganda is on this issue. Providing reservation to OBCs was in the public domain right from December 2005, when Parliament passed the enabling resolution.

Karan Thapar: Quite true. But had the Prime Minister specifically agreed on or before 5th of April to the idea?

Arjun Singh: Well, I am telling you it was already there. A whole Act was made, the Constitution was amended and the Prime Minister was fully aware of what this is going to mean. Actually, he had a meeting in which OBC leaders were called to convince them that this would give them the desired advantage. And they should, therefore, support this resolution. And at that meeting, he himself talked to them. Now, how do you say that he was unaware?

Karan Thapar: But were you at all aware that the Prime Minister might be in agreement with what was about to happen but might not wish it disclosed publicly at that point of time? Were you aware of that?

Arjun Singh: It was already there in public domain, that's what I am trying to tell you.

Karan Thapar: Then answer this to me. Why are members of the PMO telling journalists that Prime Minister was not consulted and that you jumped the gun?

Arjun Singh: Well, I don't know which member of the PMO you are talking about unless you name him.

Karan Thapar: Is there a conspiracy to make you the fall guy?

Arjun Singh: Well, I don't know whether there is one or there is not. But fall guys are not made in this way. And I am only doing what was manifestly clear to every one, was cleared by the party and the Prime Minister. There is no question of any personal agenda.

Karan Thapar: They say that, in fact, you brought up this issue to
embarrass the Prime Minister.

Arjun Singh: Why should I embarrass the Prime Minister? I am with him. I am part of his team.

Karan Thapar: They say that you have a lingering, forgive the word, jealousy because Sonia Gandhi chose Manmohan Singh and not you as Prime Minister.

Arjun Singh: Well, that is canard which is below contempt. Only that person can say this who doesn't know what kind of respect and regard I hold for Sonia Gandhi. She is the leader. Whatever she decides is acceptable to me.

Karan Thapar: They also say that you brought this issue up because you felt that the Prime Minister had been eating into your portfolio. Part of it had gone to Renuka Chaudhury and, in fact, your new deputy minister Purandar Sridevi had taken over certain parts. This was your way of getting back.

Arjun Singh: No one was taking over any part. This is a decision which the Prime Minister makes as to who has to have what portfolio. And he asked Mrs. Renuka Devi to take it and he cleared it with me first.

Karan Thapar: So there is no animus on your part?
Arjun Singh: Absolutely not.

Karan Thapar: They say that you did this because you resented the Prime Minister's popular image in the country, that this was your way of
embroiling him in a dispute that will make him look not like a modern
reformer but like an old-fashioned, family-hold politician instead.

Arjun Singh: Well, the Tammany Hall political stage is over> He is our Prime Minister and every decision he has taken is in the full consent with his Cabinet and I don't think there can be any blame on him.

Karan Thapar: One, then, last quick question. Do you think this is an issue, which is a sensitive issue, where everyone knew there would have been passions and emotions that would have aroused has been handled as effectively as it should have been?

Arjun Singh: Well, I have not done anything on it. I have not sort of what you call jumped the gun. If this is an issue, which is sensitive, everyone has to treat it that way.

Karan Thapar: But your conscience as HRD Minister is clear?

Arjun Singh: Absolutely clear.

Karan Thapar: There is nothing that you could have done to make it easier for the young students?

Arjun Singh: Well, I am prepared to do anything that can be done. And it is being attempted.

Karan Thapar: For seven weeks, they have been protesting in the hot sun. No minister has gone there to appease them, to alley their concerns, to express sympathy for them. Have politicians let the young people of India down?

Arjun Singh: Well, I myself called them. They all came in this very room.

Karan Thapar: But you are the only one.

Arjun Singh: You are accusing me only. No one else is being accused.

Karan Thapar: What about the Government of India? Has the Government of India failed to respond adequately?

Arjun Singh: From the Government of India also, the Defence Minister met them.

Karan Thapar: Only recently.

Arjun Singh: That is something because everyone was busy with the elections.

Karan Thapar: For seven weeks no one met them.

Arjun Singh: No, but we are very concerned. Certainly, all of us resent the kind of force that was used. I condemned it the very first day it happened.

Karan Thapar: All right, Mr. Arjun Singh. We have reached the end of this interview. Thank you very much for speaking on the subject.

[gitamrta]

The caste system is the best argument for why Hinduism is bad.

Hinduism is not bad. The word Caste is a Portuguese word. And is of European Christian origin.

Role of British in Caste System of India

Caste An European Phenomenon

Alot of Hindus just blindly follow the "caste system" instead of varnashrama dharma. Varnashrama has nothing to do with skin color. There are only four true varnas. Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya, Shudra. All of them are important for a society to function. All should be respected. The non-Hindu Indian caste system has thousand of caste ranking higher or lower than others. None of those have to do with true varnashrama dharma. Alot of these people who call themselves Brahmin have no right to, because they didn't earn the title. Brahmins are only people, who are guru, priest, swamis, nuns, monks, sadhus etc.... Anyone who isn't apart of a clergy shouldn't call themselves brahmins. Same with kshatriyas, if you're not a police officer, in the military, or serving your country(or community) in some way. Don't use that title. And so on for the other 2 varnas.

The original varna system in Hinduism was not based on skin color. Neither is the British altered version today, even though it has been twisted from it's original meaning. It was based on duty and character. And that choice was left up to the individual. Also in South India there are very dark black skin Brahmins. In Hinduism Sadhus, Swamis, Gurus, come in all colors. You do not have to be light skin to be a brahmin. A real brahmin is just a member of a clergy. That title shouldn't extend to family members, like it has sometimes been interpreted.


http://www.inminds.co.uk/tsunami.html
http://personal.cfw.com/~userper/religion/why_india.htm
http://www.christianaggression.org/i...&id=1137165487
http://www.christianaggression.org/i...?type=ARTICLES


Christianity has a history of forced conversion, murder and genocide. The history of xianity it the most barbaric on earth. And a few charity events isn't gonna change that. If you wanna think any religion is bad then it should be your own. Look inward. Hinduism is the most peaceful religon on earth. We don't rape, steal and forcefully convert people into our religion like some. So if your looking for a reason to hate Hinduism, you need to look for another reason. Caste system is a British propaganda invention. It has nothing to do with varna in Hinduism.

[madden]

Having only a four week course on the religious background, the caste system seems to be required to maintain integrity of the religion. If there's a diminishing population who believe in the caste system, others will certainly second guess their position. The caste system, if carried out perfectly, ensures peace and harmony in the society. Constant working to a great good is certainly beneficial to the world.

[Kombi]

I must admit I would prefer to keep this debate on the caste system. The points raised are interesting for someone like me who comes from a western culture. I believe the caste system will disapear though now we have the internet. Thailand also has a form of caste system as well but that is based more on where you live and talk, and also men there are classed as far more important than woman. In fact the woman is sold by an agreed amount by her mother. This I believe is also changing but still strong in the north where higher poverty and less education exists.